I think only Rosen could attract more interest. Some of us here
are/were his students.
> 1) that there can be physical systems with no symbolic aspect (no
> purposes).
Clearly.
> 2) There can be ideal computational systems with only a symbolic
> aspect (the implementation independent of the physical aspect)...
> That is, the same computation can be emplemented on very different
> physical systems.
This I'm not clear on. The first sentence is very different from the
second. Yes, the same formal system can be implemented (I like the
term "manifested", connoting "made actual") by/in different physical
systems, but the first sentence implies that a formal system can exist
independently of ANY physical manifestation. This smacks of idealism.
On the other hand, the fact that these two physical systems share
something in common implies that there IS something they share in
common, and that something is a priori not related to their physical
aspect.
This problem is true of all "relational" or "informational" type
categories: it's a truism that a car isn't just a pile of parts, but a
collection of parts in a certain special RELATION. What is the nature
of this relation, if not ideal?
> 3) And there can be systems that have spects of both (matter-symbol
> complementarity). It is this third type that Patee says open-ended
> evolution can occur (and life).
Right. This is the category of really interesting systems. By the way,
the normal evolutionary hierarchy runs (1) -> (3) -> (2), from rocks
(no symbols) to animals (both symbols and matter) to angels (only
symbols). I'm questioning (2), leaving us with the dichotomy between
living and non-living as the point of the origin of symbols, and thus
the origin of life as the central problem. Kampis' component systems
include (3), but are not limitted to it (being a component system is
necessary but not sufficient for being a dual matter-symbol
evolutionary system).
In general, I find most all of Pattee's ideas crucial. His is a unique
mind.
O----------------------------------------------------------------------------->
| Cliff Joslyn, NRC Research Associate, Cybernetician at Large
| Mail Code 522.3, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD 20771 USA
| joslyn@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/joslyn (301) 286-5773
V All the world is biscuit-shaped. . .