>>have an overall boundary/unity of some sort created by its
>>far-from-equilibrium.
>
>Do you mean thermodynamic equilibrium?
Yes, I do.
>>of dissipative structure is defined by its far-from-equilibrium.
>
>Physically and thermodynamically, any self-reinforcing system will be
>far-from-equilibrium.
In modern thermodynamics "far-from-equilibrium" has come to take on a
very special meaning. Boltzmann thoroughly investigated what is now
called equilibrium thermodynamics. Onsager expanded the study in to
the realm of non-equilibrium. But this inverstigation lead to no
fundamentally new structures. Today we would call this branch "linear
non-equilibrium thermodynamics". Prigogine wanted to go beyond this
linear region and explore the dynamics of non-linear non-equilibrium
thermodynamics. This was done by pushing the system further and
further from equilibrium. This is how this branch of thermodynamics
came to be known as far-from-equilibrium thermodynamics. Basically
prigogine showed that extreme non-equilibrium could be a source of
global order and that these emergent structures could *only* exist as
long as there was a sufficiently high energy flow through the system.
>What do you mean by organizationally closed? I do not think you mean that an
>autopoietic system is a closed system physically. Yet your comments below
>suggest/imply this.
Thermodynamically speaking the autopoietic system is as open as
anything. Organizational closure only refers to the organizational
circularity of the system. Here is an example.
A-->B
B-->A
A produces B which produces A. This is organizational closure.
>This seems contrary to what I have understood to be antientropic properties
>of dissipative systems- precisely their resistance to
>thermal/organizational/informational dissipation.
On the contrary. Dissipative structures *thrive* on dissipation. In
fact, they cannot exist without a great energy throughput in the
system.
> Therefore it does not experience time.
>
>This does not sound like any kind of system that _exists in real time_.
Experienced time and Real time are not the same and not necessarily
related. An autopoietic system unfolds in Real time, but does not
experience time itself. In a sense it does not have time
to experience time.
>What examples do you have in mind here?
Teleologically speaking the goal of an autopoietic system is
UNCHANGE, survival, self-maintenance. Plato was probably the first to
recognize this. In his "Republic" he speaks of "changeless change".
That is, the autopoietic system continuously maintains its
changelessness by *compensating* organizational deformations.
Therefore an example of an autopoietic mode of operation is DRIVE
REDUCTION i.e. the endless extinction of hunger, thirst and lust.
This is fundamental to the living organization.
> Speaking for myself, I must admit to carrying a little surplus...
Indeed, you also experience time. Therefore your mind is not
autopoietic. Autopoiesis is embedded in all of life, but it does not
apply to everything.
>First, what do you mean by 're-emerge' if something is 'completely out of
>existence'? Please give an example.
A wave is an emergent phenomenon. If you splash your hand in a pool
of water, waves emerge. But unless they are reinforced they
disappear. Vanish. Go out of existence. Yet, bringing them back only
requires another splash of your hand. Benard's hexagonal convection
cells emerge if the system is sufficiently heated. If the system is
cooled then they vanish. But all you have to do to bring them back is
to turn up the heat.
An autopoietic system (and I'm talking about an *individual* system)
however requires more than energy flow to exist, it also depends on
its own ORGANIZATION. If the autopoietic system dies that organization
will be lost. You cannot bring a dead body back to life by inserting
energy into it.
>We then
>have a problem regarding what it becomes when 'dead'- what property did it
>lose when it 'died'?
Its organization.
>For living systems, the organism ceases to resist
>entropic dissolution when the metabolic system is no longer capable of
>reinforcing its structure.
And this happens when their metabolic organization breaks down.
Onar.