Well, here we go again!
F.Y.I.
Don Mikulecky
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Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:42:25 -0500
Reply-To: NE Complex Systems Institute <NECSI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender: NE Complex Systems Institute <NECSI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From: Yaneer Bar-Yam <yaneer@NECSI.ORG>
Subject: Re: A Question...
To: NECSI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
General comment:
While the discussion of Rosen's work
has occupied a substantial thread of
this listserv, it should be recalled
that his is only one of a number of
perspectives and proper respect should
be given to other views. Unless Rosen's
advocates have a specific contribution,
it is not necessary to point out his
disagreement with other views when
they are raised.
>Indeed, the "edge of chaos" is the same as
>the "selforganized critical state".
>Actually, in Packards original article on the
>edge of chaos from 1988, he does properly
>refer to the work on SOC from 1987.
>Per Bak.
>
If Per will allow me to expand on his
brief remarks:
Both the edge-of-chaos notion and the
notion of self-organized critical state
have their roots in understanding
transitions such as between liquid and
gas or liquid and solid. The behavior
at the transition point has been of
great interest in physics, and there
are special conditions (called second
order transition points) under which
there is structure and dynamics on
all scales, and in particular all
the way from microscopic to macroscopic.
Per showed early in the 1980s that
systems driven by an energy flow
typically go to a behavior which can be
similarly characterized, but without
the necessity of adjusting conditions
ie the temperature. They "self-organize" to
this special behavior.
The idea that complex behavior of living
organisms is to be thought of as at such a
transition point between order and disorder
was described as the edge-of-chaos
notion. The original work on this concept
used a model of dynamics which is very
different from the original models of
transitions, (or Per's work) however
the general concept was articulated
in the same way.
which is linguistic. The idea of edge-of-chaos
sounds very different from order/disorder
boundary. Chaos invokes the sensitivity to
disturbances which is not characteristic of
either ordered or disordered state. Indeed
there is a connection to the notion of this
kind of chaos because at the transition point
there is some sensitivity to disturbances, but
the terminology seems very confusing. Any
comments about this would be appreciated.
------------------------------------------------
Yaneer Bar-Yam
President
New England Complex Systems Institute
http://necsi.org
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