Walter Fritz wrote:
> >> "Logical and system theoretical research" is not possible without
> >> information, and all information is based on sense information.
>
> > how is mathematics based on sense information ?
> > which sense do you use to experience mathematical systems ?
> > which sense do you use to experience philosophical systems ?
>
> I understand you perfectly when you think that all these are "non
> physical". Mathematics is concepts, mental processes and the
> relantionship between these. All these are not in the environment but
> in our mind.
> But let's look at some details. Mathematics is not something that we
> know since birth. It is something LEARNED. We learn arithmetic in
> school. 3 apples plus 2 apples is 5 apples. For this learning we use our
> senses.
birds are born with the ability to "count"....all knowledge is a mix of
inbuilt and learned stuff....but this is a distraction....mathematics as an
object of study is not physical
> We see the apples. Also we need our hearing. We hear what our
> teacher explains. So the basis of all mathematics is sense information.
> The storage of this mathematical knowledge is in neurons and the way
> they get connected. This knowledge is stored in a physical way. Also all
> mathematical processes are learned and stored in neurons.
> I call that which is stored "concepts" and "response rules" (for
> processes). What exists from birth is our ablity to receive sense
> inputs, the ability to extract spacial and temporal patterns from these
> sense inputs; the ability to construct from these, concepts of varying
> complexity; to represent the "present situation" with these concepts; to
> choose an action (applicable to the present situation), based on past
> experience; and to do this action. Further and very important the
> ability to LEARN from what happened after our action; in other words,
> the ability to modify our "response rules".
Again ignoring well established innate behavior patterns
> Apart from physical neurons and physical processes in our brains there
> is nothing. There is nothing "non physical" in the brain. The brain is a
> biological and physical object.
> We should not assume (according to Occams razor) variables, that are not
> needed for the explanation of an occurrence. That means, in our case,
> that we should not postulate non physical components or processes if
> they are not needed for the explanation. Also we should have good
> evidence that these exist before postulating them.
> You may ask, why I think that I know all this: I have built a number of
> artificial intelligent systems and observed the processes that occur in
> them.
so have others who disagree with you profoundly!
> By the way, these systems can read their own memories and can act on
> them. Also we are aware (conscious) of our own memories including
> mathematical and philosophical systems.
> So you see, while mathematics (and philosophy) are concepts, processes
> and relations in our mind (and you can call them nonphysical), the mind
> itself is the functioning of the brain. The concepts, response rules and
> patterns are stored in physical neurons, and the ocurring processes
> occur within and between material neurons.
>
> Walter Fritz
> http://www.anice.net.ar/intsyst/
respectfully,
Don Mikulecky