Re: self-producing

Onar Aam (onar@HSR.NO)
Tue, 22 Aug 1995 00:50:37 +0100


In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Aug 1995 18:23:47 -0400 ." <199508212223.AAA26494@broremann.hsr.no>

>Are there any good examples (or good candidates) of self-organizing disipative
>structures that might be a stepping stone to autopoiesis?

Well, I've always fancied the sun. If it isn't alive then it's darn close. It
is dissipative, self-producing (as far as I can see) and has a definite
boundary.

I believe we've missed the train of Life on this planet. Life has a tendency to
override and control all other systems it comes in touch with. There may be no
more room for new life on earth.

>Would conventional examples of self-organizing dissipative structures include
>things like tornados, hurricanes, the Benard cell, a flame, etc... ?

I'm not dead positive but I do think vortices and tornados are dissipative
structures. They surely have the lack of autonomy that is so typical for
dissipative structures. If the wind stops blowing then the tornado fades away,
if the river stops flowing the vortex dissolves. If they were autopoietic
systems
the would have tried to counteract death. They do no such thing.

Despite the fact that computer models cannot be living I believe that this is
the place where we will see the most successful models of autopoiesis. If
today's existing computer models of autopoiesis could be coupled with todays
computer models of dissipative structures then I definitely think we'd have an
interesting product.

Onar.